I got a condescending message where the man totally twisted some powerful scripture to support the false doctrines he believes. This is the second and final time I will respond to the man to whom I have shared the sincere milk of this word and corrected his assertions of several false doctrines unless the Lord grants to him repentance.
I decided to use his promotion of Romans 9 Scripture to prove his false doctrine as a teaching moment for those the Lord may be dragging. Understanding what these Romans 9 verses actually mean is essential to knowing the true nature of the Lord and God’s plan for all men.
Question From G_______: Sure the Lord is the potter but some vessels are made to dishonor and some to honor as these verses tell us from Romans 9. God is not going to save everyone.
Romans 9:21-24 “Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonour? What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”
ANSWER: Dear G______ I find it ironic that the very verses you gave to me speak of UNIVERSAL SALVATION but you can’t even see that. The truth that all men will be saved thru Christ is right here in this passage. In particular I am going to explore the bolded areas below from this passage that tell a great truth if one can see it. God is not some monster wanting to pour His wrath out on us as the eternal torment doctrine teaches. His wrath is poured out on those HE loves, it is the way salvation comes to all men in their appointed time. Secondly, you do not understand what is meant by the word Jew and Gentile in Romans 9 and that lack of understanding will keep you from seeing a clear “good news” message in the verses you cited.
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”
The Scriptures cited tell us God wants to show His wrath, He desires to make His power known and He will have us all to come to know the fact that He is the LORD. A Lord of anything means He is in absolute charge of everything that happens. Jesus is the LORD yet billions just give that fact lip service, they don’t know what being Lord means. What the carnal mind cannot understand in its strong delusion is that Christ really is the Lord and that means He causes all things that happen to happen. In fact all Scriptures that speak to us coming to know He is the Lord speak to us going thru the wrath of God against our sins and carnal nature. That is how we come to know His true character and understand His purposes in all things. If this is not happening to you, it means you are not now a son of God and are a bastard, an illegitimate son.
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
The scourging and chastening is God’s wrath. This is the righteous judgment of God poured out on our flesh which is how we all learn righteousness.
Isa 26:9 … for when thy judgments are in the earth (and not one moment prior) , the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
and we are that earth, this speaks of our bodies and our minds.
Jer 22:29 O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.
Heretofore you could not see it and maybe you still can’t? This is because false doctrines like the Trinity doctrine, eternal torment and man having free will, are keeping you blinded and solidly under the influence of Babylonian doctrines. This is the Lord’s doing as He is the only one who can open ears and eyes and give the understanding of the truth. We have no say so in that. The Babylonian teaching that anyone can pick up a Bible and read and teach themselves the truth is a lie. All of it is written in parables and the events themselves are parables and that is to hide the meaning so said the Lord.
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is GIVEN unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not GIVEN.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
So it is not your fault but you are not currently in the truth and are believing the lies of Babylon. Everyone one of your doctrines is based on the apostate church and is what we all learn when we first come to Christ. But it is another jesus and a different gospel. We must live by every word God spoke and that includes first being deceived and walking in strong delusion once we come to know Christ in the flesh. The Lord will have mercy on us all in our appointed times but know what Christ said about why He came into this world.
Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
All the time we claim we see we are blind. Unless and until the Lord shows us via our own road to Damascus experience, we are still in darkness and separated from the truth by the veil of flesh and our sins remain. A big problem in your theology is that you do not currently know who is true jew and by extension who are the gentiles. I will help you with that Lord willing.
Rom 2:28 FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Here is another witness to what matters and tells us clearly who is ISRAEL in this age.
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Gal 6:16 and as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Lastly, these words of Christ are some we must commit to our memory. Being a Jew in the flesh profits itself NOTHING.
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
So when you read Romans 9 as you cited to me and forget who a real Jew is, you don’t understand what is being said. If you could only keep this truth in your head when you look at Scripture maybe you would be given to understand what Paul actually said in Romans 9. What Paul said is that God will make known the riches of His glory (which is Christ in you, the hope of Glory), not only to the true Jews (God’s Elect now, the true Jews who are one inwardly) but eventually to everyone else who is not now a Jew (i.e. THE GENTILES or anotherwords ALL MEN). There are only two types of men, Jews and Gentiles. Those in the covenant of faith and those that are not. Eventually all will be real “jews” but we will have to wait until the lake of fire for the multitudes to be brought into the true faith.
And what you do not realize or believe is that the process of salvation, Christ being formed in us, comes with the wrath of God being poured out on the first adam, the marred vessel of clay that cannot nor was ever intended to inherit the kingdom of God. No man enters into Christ (the real one) any other way.
Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues (OF WRATH) of the seven angels were fulfilled.
Exo 6:6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:
God is merciful and patient with the marred vessels of clay HE made thru Jesus Christ. As the Scriptures you shared tell us, the first Adam, the vessel of dishonor is prepared for destruction!!!
In case you missed it, look also right here in the same Romans 9 you cited your Scripture from. You must know who Israel is to have any chance of understanding the Scriptures.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Can it be any clearer? THEY ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD who are jews of the flesh! This error is a gigantic log in your eye that I am pointing out to you as it was pointed out to me in times past. We all first learn lies and then if the Lord has mercy, those tares are gathered and burned in the fire of the truth of God’s word. You like all of us who come to Christ at first, have been taught by men. You are still in Babylon, infected with the leprosy of their false doctrines. My last post spoke about the need to try the spirits and weed out false doctrines and this error of who is a jew and a gentile is huge.
The verses you cited about the vessels of honor and dishonor are awesome truths if we are given to correctly apply the Scriptures. Here is the passage again you sent me to prove God is not saving everybody and is going to pour his wrath out on these vessels of dishonor.
Romans 9:21-24 “Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonour? What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”
We, all men are both of these vessels. That is the SAME ONE LUMP. We come into this world as the first adam, marred in the hands of the potter, conceived in a body of sinful flesh. We can’t help but sin as the one lawgiver put the law of sin and death into our members. Here is a key verse that helps one understand the two vessels from the one lump of clay.
Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
The vessels of honor that you and I at first will assume are that evil man down the street is you and me. We all are the vessel of dishonor before the Lord in His appointed time remakes us into the vessel of honor that can enter the kingdom of God. Learn to apply Scripture inwardly. Who did Paul blame his sinful ways on? It was not him, but sin, the law of “sin and death” specifically that the potter put into him In fact we are told this twice in Romans 7.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
It is not man that does it, all the evil in the world, including every sin is caused by God. All things is all things and yes that includes our very sins.
Isa 63:17 O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants’ sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city (inward or outward cities), and the LORD hath not done it?
God has not lost control. The devil is not running around loose outside of God’s control, LOL that is all carnal doctrines that result from believing the lies of the harlot.
But this is God’s plan for all men. We come in naked in sinful flesh and then that old man is destroyed in order for the new man, the Lord from heaven to come forth. All men will live this sequence of Scriptures as we will live by every word God spoke. This explains the two vessels from the one lump and I hope you can believe it.
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
All Israel is not Israel right now (only God’s elect are Israel) but in the end All Israel shall be saved which simply means the potter will finish His work and remake all things.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
I hope the Lord will give you the right spirit and open your ears to receive His truths and grant you the same repentance He granted to me from my former ignorance. If you have sincere questions please submit them to me but know this commandment given to servants of the Lord.
2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive (quarrel); but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance (Given to men, no free will involved) to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.