Christian’s Free Will Practice Of Sin
Joshua 24:15 But if you refuse to serve the LORD, then choose today whom you will serve. Would you prefer the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates? Or will it be the gods of the Amorites in whose land you now live? But as for me and my family, we will serve the LORD.”
We either serve the living God our creator or we serve other gods, which are really no gods at all. Joshua spoke to the young nation of Israel that had finally obtained their freedom yet had a choice to make to either serve God or serve the devil and his instruments that have dominion over all the earth. Paul said essentially the same thing to the early Christians that had been set free from their former “religious” captors and had been freed from the power of sin thru Christ.
Galatians 4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?
The devil and the power of sin to destroy lives and souls is still here. Jesus did not come to take any of that way. Jesus came to give us the power to be set free and overcome sin and the enemy. That is what true grace is all about. Jesus already did it, we just need to receive the gift and exercise it in a walk of obedience. This is the gospel.
Every day when we awaken, we can choose the way of Cain or Abel. We can choose the way of the world; which is Satan’s dominion, or we can choose to follow Jesus. We have a choice to make and we get to make it every single day. God initiates His work in our lives – HE indeed chooses us first — yet we must then choose Him and exercise the gift of grace that has appeared to all men. Our jealous God tests us constantly and we get to reaffirm our faith and love for Him all the days we walk in this body of flesh. We must endure to the very end.
The devil has brought in doctrines that call obedience works and has created a phobia about earning one’s salvation. Legalism was always about Jesus plus something else to be saved. If we do not obey Jesus, He is not our Lord, so obeying God is not legalism. It is when man adds their traditions and man-made religion to the words of Jesus that we get legalism. God established conditions for eternal life, and DOING them is not works – It is LOVE and obedience which is also the way of a true faith. You need to get perfectly clear that obedience to the commandments of Jesus Christ is not “works”. Obedience is a fruit of being led by the Spirit of God. If we are not led by the Spirit, we will not or cannot obey God; but obey God we must to be in the will of the Father. We choose each day to whom we shall serve. Who did you choose to serve today is a question we should ask ourselves often.
Choosing the road to eternal life requires us to pay a price and to suffer. This is the test of our heart that God has put before all men. When we pass these daily tests, we come thru the furnace of fire and are purified of all unrighteousness. This is the will of our Father. If we don’t go thru that furnace of fire, we are just practicing religion and playing church. That is vain worship and of no effect in God’s eyes. He doesn’t want our offerings, He wants our whole heart as evidenced by our obedience to His commandments.
Committing Sin vs Practicing Sin
My main purpose of this post is to show the clear teachings about practicing sin and practicing righteousness. Doing these things are choices we make in our heart. Clearly we are told we cannot practice sin and have any expectation of receiving the prize of eternal life. But on the other hand, we are told of the great love and forgiveness of God that comes to those that earnestly seek Him. When we go to the throne of grace, we receive mercy for our past sins and the power in the moment to say NO to ungodliness and its temptations.
Hebrews 4:16 Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. This is what the comforter does, the Spirit of God comforts us and helps us endure the trials and temptations of life. We must follow the leading of the Spirit who will guide us into all righteousness.
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age. When we trust in our flesh, we are not going to the throne of grace for help in our time of need.
A majority of Christians believe in eternal security or that once anyone comes to know God and tastes of the heavenly gift (i.e. receives the Holy Spirit) that they cannot then lose their salvation no matter what they do going forward, even if they practice sin. This is a lie and is a doctrine of demons that I recently showed from the Scriptures in Falling Away From Faith.
Other Christians believe that if you do not become absolutely sinless and perfect and make even one mistake, and sin of any kind, that you were either never saved to begin with or that you have lost your salvation. If we really love God, we will be aiming to be perfect and Holy as our Father in heaven is Holy. Sinless perfection must indeed be our goal if Jesus is really our Lord. Otherwise we tell God we love something else more than Him, our sin and lusts. But to completely cut out the abundant (but not unlimited) mercy of God is also a false doctrine. I believe it is absolutely possible and my calling as a servant of God to strive to sin not. But to extrapolate that into a doctrine that says one mistake and you are done is also a doctrine of demons.
We have a mediator named Jesus and our journey likened to a marathon race that we must finish. Many of us will stumble at times, especially early on as we mature in Christ and move beyond the basic milk of His Word that gives us life. But if we really love God, we will get right back up and keep running the race. This is how we move onto maturity and build the character and perseverance needed to finish the race God has set before us. God is faithful and He will forgive us if we confess our sin to Him but we cannot continue to practice sin and be in the will of God.
1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness
When we stumble and make a mistake, God will bring discipline to us. Praise God for the Holy Spirit that will convict us of all unrighteousness and lead us into truth. It is when we respond to God’s subsequent discipline that we are purified of sin and prove ourselves to be legitimate sons of God. But we better not play around with sin as we will be readily deceived and made drunk with a false gospel and run the risk of hardening our hearts so much that the Word can no longer bring healing to our souls. Where that line of delineation is, I don’t know for sure, yet God knows, it is in your heart — but don’t play around with the fire of sin.
Each of these two doctrines of demons are built on partial truths but then the leaven is added in and we end up with deception. In my view, OSAS is by far the bigger danger and the most successful deception by the devil. I have been in both places and never found the peace that transcends all understanding in either place. I was in bondage to religion and the perversion of grace into a license to sin and later the sinless perfectionists and legalism crowd. The latter comes about from spiritual pride that the enemy brings to us when we first come to see the truth about God. They are both traps and snares we need to beware of and avoid like a plague.
I was never set free until I knew the truth. Knowing Jesus will set you free but you will never know Him if you practice sin or if you become a prideful self-righteous Bible thumper and evil judge; which is sin also. Both of these extreme positions are keeping many in bondage to sin and the devil and unable to find the true inner peace that comes from Knowing Jesus Christ.
The remainder of this post will focus on the first doctrine of demons cited, the one that says we can keep on practicing sin and be in the will of God.
Practicing Sin
There are a couple of clear passages about practicing sin that leave no room for misinterpretation.
Matthew 7:23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
1 John 3:4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
It is patently clear in the Scriptures that we cannot practice sin and expect to enter the Kingdom of God. It amazes me how men in their stubborn rebellion of their hearts have fallen for the lies of the devil on this issue of sin. False teachers that say sin doesn’t matter anymore once you profess Jesus as Lord inspire rebellion to God. The truth of God has been replaced with this lie in most Christian circles. God says He sends strong delusion upon those who love their sin. When the true gospel is preached, Jesus has become a Rock of offense to those that are outwardly religious but inwardly are still in love with their sin. You can’t love God and do this. If you claim otherwise you are worshipping the image of the beast spoken of in Revelation 13. If we practice sin, Jesus cannot have our whole heart. This is what the terms “playing the harlot” refer to in the prophets and many are doing this today in Babylon, the Mother of Harlots. Those that just hear the word but do no practice it deceive themselves by their continued and willful disobedience.
1 Peter 2:7-8 THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,” 8and, ”A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE“; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.
The devil wants us to believe we can keep on sinning after we come to Jesus. This is the same old lie given to Eve repackaged for centuries. The Prophets from Moses to Malachi speak of this lie so often there is no way it can be missed in any serious study of Scripture. The lie leads to all kinds of false doctrines and traditions of men like OSAS and ultimately perverts the true meaning of the grace of God and subsequently the love of God.
God surely forgives sins under the conditions spelled out to us in the Scriptures, but that wasn’t even why Jesus came. Forgiveness of sin is a by-product or provision God gives to those that walk in true faith with Him. The heart of the gospel is about the power of God working in us to overcome sin and take it completely out of our life. If we only take part of the word of God, we are readily deceived by the deceitfulness of sin that remains in our hearts. We never get fully washed of impurity and the Spirit does not come if sin is practiced. God’s will is our purification of all unrighteousness or sin. This results in us obeying God out of love from a pure heart and the power of God working in us will wash our hearts clean of the practice of sin. This is how we walk holy and blameless before the Lord and prepare ourselves for the Bridegroom.
I have lived this myself, I know it is true. I see it in the WORD and I have seen the power of God working thru me to change me and burn all of this wickedness out of my heart. I am coming thru His fire of purification and am staying put in this fire. Many are enticing me out of the fire but I am not responding to these calls of the devil and the world to rejoin them in Egypt and the world. Let’s look at the will of God.
The Will of God
There is not a clearer salvation verse in all of Scripture than these words from Jesus. Sadly men have spent countless years in speculating about a clear teaching of Christ. Another one of the sayings of Jesus that speak to an ACTION that we must undertake.
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who DOES the will of My Father in heaven.
The will of the Father is that you obey the Son and cease from practicing sin. That means you will be sanctified which means purified from sin.
1 Thessalonians 4:3 It is God’s will that you should be sanctified
Hebrews 12:14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord
1 John 3:3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure
Peter told us how we purify ourselves, speaking in the past tense to the brethren who had suffered in the flesh and ceased from sin.
1 Peter 1:22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart
1 Peter 4:10 Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin
Sounds like we have a little “work” to do, we must take some action, we must make a choice for God. As we are told in Revelation, the true Bride of Christ makes herself ready. We purify ourselves by choosing life, sowing to the Spirit and following the voice of our Shepherd.
Love is a choice just as eternal life is a choice. The true gospel is based on a very simple truth and commandment. Paul called it the simplicity and purity of our devotion to Christ. It is everywhere in your Bible as Jesus quoted here.
Mark 12:30 AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH
This is the ONE commandment upon which all other commandments of God are based. This is the one thing the rich younger ruler lacked. This story is told to us in Luke 18. This young man was plenty religious, he was generous to the poor and obeyed all the commandments of God except the primary one. God did not have his whole heart. Yet modern-day Babylon would have called him a saint for all the good religious works he did.
This is the #1 problem in Christianity today and particularly in the cotton candy laced churches that comprise Babylon. They teach and promote idolatry, the idea that we can serve two masters, walk double minded and still be in the will of God and enter into the Kingdom. Few there be shall find that narrow gate said Jesus. Paul warned the believers sitting in the early churches about this lie over and over again. So did all the New Testament writers and the Prophets.
2 Corinthians 11:3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
Very few Christians have been sanctified (purified) or are even striving to walk the path and highway of holiness that Jesus walked. They have been sold the wrong gospel. We all will be judged by our deeds. All verses that speak to judgment speak to our deeds, which is our obedience to the commandments of God.
Hebrews 5:9 And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation
We are clothed by the righteousness of Christ when we walk as Jesus walked.
Practicing Righteousness
Righteousness means to be “right in God’s eyes“. God hates sin and is jealous for all of our hearts so if we practice sin we can NEVER “be right” in His eyes. We must repent and turn from sin to be righteous in God’s eyes. Many false teachers have arisen from Babylon and are selling the false gospel that denies the power of Jesus to transform us and overcome sin. My Bible says we can do ALL things thru Christ, including obeying God. Many false shepherds, called hirelings in the Prophets, pass themselves off as true shepherds of the flock yet they tell the lie that we cannot obey God (practice righteousness) and that if we even try such a thing, we are trying to earn our salvation. What a perversion of the Scriptures. These are the deceivers my friends who are tickling the ears of those in apostasy to the truth. The righteous shall live by faith, but a true faith means we obey the God we call Lord.
Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
Of course we cannot obey on the strength of our flesh, that is not in dispute. What is missing is the concept of free will or choice that we get to make every day. Are we making the choice (desiring) to follow Jesus? Then heed what God said about this choice.
Luke 9:23 If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me
The true sons of God are led by the Spirit of God. Everyone else is an illegitimate son also known as a tare, despite their practice of religion or what they may say with their lips.
Romans 8:13-14 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Despite all the warnings about being deceived on this sin issue, many Christians have been deceived by false workers of righteousness and blinded to the truth by their continued practice of sin. They have put on forms of godliness (i.e. RELIGION) yet deny the power of Christ to transform them into a new creation. It is more involved than just saying some words with your lips. When people build doctrines off partial truths that accommodate sin, the true gospel is veiled to their eyes and they don’t see verses such as this one.
Ephesians 5:5-6 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
I am no longer being deceived by the empty and swelling words of vanity coming from the false church built by the works of men. The lies told in all these books on religion being sold for gain are wearing to the souls of God’s people. These men and women are seeking you, but not commendably; and are merchandising God for selfish ambition. I pray you too will awaken to the truth and not be swept away by the flood of deception that has come upon us in the end. In the Book of 1 Corinthians, Paul follows another hard hitting message about deception on the practice of sin ( 1 Cor 6:9-10) with this verse. Notice that these Christian believers used to practice sin but they do not any longer.
1 Corinthians 6:11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God
True Christians DO NOT practice sin. If they do, they are none of His. Where sin was practiced in the New Testament, I see God killing the professing believers, the church withdrawing fellowship from them, handing them over to Satan or the Apostles warning them and even calling them adulteress’. How can we be deceived any longer in these times of increasing spiritual darkness? It is almost midnight, the darkest time of the night and the foolish virgins have no oil.
The church of Jesus Christ practices righteousness, they do not practice sin. They used to do these things but they do not do them any longer. This obvious correlation has been veiled to those that love to sin. It is exactly the same way in the wonderful yet also horribly mis-taught passage in Ephesians about grace and works.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast
All one has to do to see the truth about works is just read the whole chapter. It will be clearly shown that Paul said these Christians “used to”, “formerly”, “were” practitioners of sin but they were not any longer. So clearly practicing sin means one is not saved. They were either never saved, meaning they NEVER KNEW JESUS or they have fallen from faith and grace.
Colossians 3:5-7 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8But now you must rid yourselves of all such things
Being Born Again and transformed into a new creation by the power of God obviously has a direct impact on our deeds going forward.
1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Do we really need to consult a dictionary or know Greek or seek a concordance to understand these verses from 1 John? Is there really a need to debate it? Who is the liar?
1 John 2:4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him
The clarity of 1 John does not stand-alone. There are scores of verses that say the same thing including the ones from Matthew 7 earlier in this post. If you are not practicing righteousness (Obeying God) you are not of God. Practicing righteousness is not works, it is being led by the Spirit of God to put to death the deeds of the flesh and walking in holiness.
Jesus says He does not know you if you practice lawlessness, which is the opposite of practicing righteousness. Jesus is not a minister to sin. We deceive yourself if we claim to be a Christian and are saved, IF we are practicing sin. If this be the case, then Jesus is not our Lord and He does not have all our heart. We cannot love God if we do not keep His commandments. That is what Jesus said.
John 14:23 If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word
Most Christians are aligned with the devil and worship the image of Satan, believing they are worshipping Jesus. They are simply deceived and gulping down the wine of religion in Babylon.
1 John 3:10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
This truth is so essential to a true walk that John told us this twice in this one chapter alone.
1 John 3:7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
I see MANY Christians in the process of being chopped down right now. They all go to church, they attend Bible Studies, they even go to Sunday School or public prayer gatherings….. BUT THEY PRACTICE SIN. They have never been transformed into a new creation. They are just religious. God has sent upon them the strong delusion so they will believe the lie of Satan and take pleasure in their sin (unrighteousness). It is hard to open their eyes to the truth. Many violently oppose the true gospel and speak curses against anyone that tries to show them the truth to save their souls. God has to bring understanding to them but He says they will stay blind until they repent and come to Him with pure motives.
I am trying to reach out to them in true Godly Love, especially where God leads me. This is not judgment, it is Love. I want to show them truth in the Word of God and wake them up to the deception and the delusion that has so ensnared virtually the entire world. It is time to get out of Babylon, the judgment is already being poured out.
If you are in the church of Jesus Christ, then you are obeying God. You are practicing righteousness and are not doing the things you used to do in your former ignorance of the truth. Those of us who know God, need to encourage one another as the persecution and rejection by those in the world is growing stronger against the true gospel.
1 Peter 1:14-15 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in ALL YOUR BEHAVIOR
May God Bless You Richly!
Joe, I write this as a brother who has gone thru similar experiences. If you really hate what God hates, the sin in our lives — I believe one’s heart is right with God and that is what He wants as His foremost commandment, to love Him with all of it. We must truly come to mourn and weep over our sin and bring it to the light that is Christ. He will wash us and He will deliver us from bondage if we truly trust Him and surrender it all to Him. But our forgiveness is conditioned on us forgiving others an often overlooked critical condtion. Many are on their way to hell that have rationilized sin and perverted grace and God has sent them strong delusion already. Our salvation is a journey not an event and we are eternally saved so long as we stay walking with God, rising immediately upon any stumble into sin. Sin is deceitful and if it takes root in our heart it will grown and all kinds of false religion has popped to justify such evil.
I have been humbled and learned some key lessons with on the job training. We cannot stop sinning on the strength of our flesh. It is the supernatural work of God that circumcises our hearts and cuts the sin out of it. So we must walk the narrow road striving and suffering the whole way, carrying a cross. If you are chosen of God, you will know it my friend as the Spirit of Truth will let you know. If we don’t have confidence before God, our hearts will condemn us and we need to surrender something to God to restore peace to our hearts. Jesus paid the price for all the sin of His people, Spiritual Israel and if your heart is truly turned to Him, you are redeemed already Joe. You are forgiven and are told to go and sin no more. Don’t ever accept sin and continually keep the fear of God near to your lips and on your mind. Make every effort to purge it from our life making no provision or rationalizations for fleshly lusts.
So finally to your simple yet powerful question, I think you are fine based on the spirit of your question, but that is between you and God. Have you been born again? Was there a time when Joe became a different man? Did you stop pursuing the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life; the very things the world covets? Is your mind now focused on Jesus and knowing Him versus where you were prior? You will know the answer my friend and if you have, then you are a child of God. Now follow Him as the Spirit will not lead you into unrighteousness.
Resist the devil and he will flee after a while. We must suffer for a while to cease from sinning (1 Peter 4:10) Many of us walk out of the furnace of fire prematurely, we trust in men and man’s religious doctrines instead of God. Next time this temptation comes, and it will, stand, resist, call out to God, take the heat and He will see you thru it. There is no temptation we cannot endure (1 Cor 10:13). But stand guard and watch always, even if you go months without sin, just when you think you have arrived and have made it, the enemy will come to test your faith at a very opportune time (weakness of flesh). Jesus told the disciples before He was taken away.
Matthew 26 – “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.”
I made a short PowerPoint Video on Forgiveness that has already been paid for and is available to the children of the living God. Be blessed and stay strong in the Lord.
http://truthinscripture.com/forgiveness/
Hi! I’ll be perfectly blunt with my question. I do not practice sin, but occasionally, maybe once a month, I may be overcome with lust. It happens, I hate it, I ask forgiveness, then I move on.
Does this mean I am headed for hell?
Randy, You are very well spoken and I can see God has equipped you for minsitry in how you write. I am searching for that same nirvana place of understanding you are seeking. I think it is possible and few attain to it. Jesus told the disciples a profound truth that has been glossed over. I have been reluctant to write about it as I was still searching for more understanding. There was a website that explained this pretty well I thought and I will come back later today and add the link. But here is the profound statement Jesus made.
Matthew 16:28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Some claim this was fulfilled in the transifiguration on the Mount. But I don’t think so. Jesus had not yet gone to the cross, it was after He died, was raised and ascended, and the Holy Spirit came upon the Disciples that they saw the Son of Man coming into His kingdom.
The first resurrection to life occurs here and now in this life on this planet.
John 5:25 I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.
Thanks Pete for taking the time to answer… The name Matthew comes from a food ministry that I have been involved in (Matthew 4-19 food ministry) and now run for over 15 years… We sit down and talk with everybody that comes in and believe me you will not hear me talk the way I have on this blog… I have always been a defender of the faith and have always been very big on “God is love” but you know after years of suffering afflictions within my own family and seeing and hearing from the people that come into this food ministry the horrendous suffering that they are going through I have grown tired of all the injustice .
You know Jesus suffered greatly on the cross but there have been people that have suffered more; physically anyway…People that have been tortured to the point of death only to be nursed back to health just so they could be tortured all over again; months even years for some… Some people are born into this world being Charles Manson’s son and some are born in as Prince Charles… Some are born mentally ill (where choices seems to mean little) and some so ignorant that you can see it in their narrow set eyes, what chance do they have with all their memories of childhood beatings and such… Some are born only to live very short lives never really entering into reason… If you enter into Heaven on the grounds that you have not reached the age of accountability then I wish I had died as a youth…
I once did have a “near death experience” and I experienced knowledge that I can’t even begin to explain to anyone… No wonder why God laughs at the proud… I saw man as being like a box of puppies where one struts around grabbing the other by the neck as if he knows it all and is better than they; and the other puppies cowering down in agreement not knowing that they were all just in a little box in someone’s garage… And I once felt God’s presence so intense that I knew by the very presence that He was unadulterated love and that he was light and truth and there was no darkness in Him nor could there ever be… But the body and the mind and the agents of darkness play many tricks on us… What do we know? We can reed the scriptures and interpret it in a thousand different ways and just like those puppies we are all cowering down to one another as if they have something we don’t…
We prey for people and our own loved ones according to the bible as we read and interpret it; only to see them coming and going in the same condition… And I wonder why? Doesn’t God have to keep his word… There are so many loopholes… Do I really have faith? Am I really believing? It always comes down to the excuses… and answers from God are as allusive as a carrot on a stick; always just out of reach and if I could just try a little harder then maybe I would know… But it is never enough and truth has no ownership except maybe by Jesus Himself… You know Jesus was not silent as a lamp with Pilate and I think it was because of that one statement he made… “What is truth”… Only a person who has really searched could make that statement… I feel like that Pete… I am so tired of making excuses and looking something that I never seem able to find that I have grown weary beyond words… I have looked like few men and God knows I speak the truth, but I fear I will never find what I am looking for… Maybe after all these years I must relinquish to what everyone has said all my life…”that you just can’t find that kind of truth”… I once yelled at God “how can I go back knowing what I know now “ only to see as it were slats blocking off all that I had known…
I can’t help but feel that there is a place that you can get to that this stuff will really work… Blind eyes will be opened and the captive will be free from there prisons but there I go again…but only if there was a place where you could get out of the box… The bible says “Seek and you will find” and to “Knock and the door will be opened” but I find that not to be true, I have been beating on that door for a long time…and I wish that he would please just let me in…. And the stuff about hell, I have gone down that road quit a ways and if you go down far enough I think hell is pretty much hell to be absent from God or in the fire and brimstone is pretty much the same…. Thanks again Pete, nice to have heard from you… It may not seem like it but I think our hearts are pretty close… I wish I had your mind thou….
Matthew, Thank you brother for sharing your point of view. I receive the feedback and I believe I understand what you are saying. I need a little time to answer your questions and help you the best way I can. Do not let a spirit of despair come upon you. God is good and works all for the greater good, even calamity and evil. His thoughts and ways are not are thoughts and ways.
I don’t want to defend myself because I am just a man, I don’t know it all and at the end of the day I am nobody special in God’s eyes. This blog does tend to skew and emphasize the “negative” side of God, if there was such a thing. I don’t represent that this blog is balanced. It is absolutely no subsititute for somone reading the Bible themselves, fellowshipping, praying and seeking God. Watchman didn’t exactly walk around talking about pleasant things and the Prophets are largely “negative” in that they speak much more warning and judgment then they do love. But still your point is made. I thank God for His mercy and its continuation as otherwise I would have no chance of making it.
Living in this world is a test of our faith.
1 Peter 1:6-9 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
You know I don’t know what church you have gone to that teaches such lawlessness but every church I have been in is like a revolving door… They tell you that you are saved by grace and then they beat you to death with the law with the slight smell of fire and brimstone… I know of only one church that really teaches 0SAS but they to have the same revolving door… And it is no wonder that some churches may think this way… The bible clearly tells us that the Father forgives 70 x 7 in a day as replied to Peter… And Paul speaking in regards to doing things you wish not to do (sin) and not doing the things you wish to (righteousness) was because of sin living in this mortal body…(Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.) making a division between what you do in the body and what you do in the spirit…
There is something to be said for the understanding that comes from not be a liar and admitting that I have sin “in this mortal body” yet “I” no longer sin being hid in Christ… Could Christ have sin in Him..? You know I am not all the bright and even though I am 57 years old and sometimes I feel like I was born asking “why”; I feel like I know little or nothing at all… Not that I have not had times in my life when I thought I knew it all… I have heard both side of this and those that are on the OSAS side have those people as yourself that have just studied the scriptures inside and out and can give just as many scriptures verifying there point of view.
I am always a little mystified to how people with there doctoral degrees in divinity or even monks who have spent every waking moment studying the Word and asking God to show them the truth can come up with such diverse pints of view… Those whom spend too much time in the Old Testament picking and defining all the symbology seem to forget or lessen God’s Grace and frankly I feel the smack of the schoolmaster quite a bit from your site; no ill intent meant… I have enjoyed reading your blog very much and you may be 100% correct in all you say but I have to say I feel enlighten but very little joy comes with that… And then on the Grace side it is just all covered so I guess according to that side we will all see Hitler in heaven… No that to seems to be lacking…
All my life I have been asking God to just show me the truth and I have never been able to leave it alone. Many times out of frustration I wished I could be like others and just live my life but yet I am forever looking, watching and searching for that truth that might tie it all together…walking away is an impossible thing for me to do…
So many nagging questions, I have desperately been searching for the God in the bible that just truly loves me as well as all men…. A God that is love…the source and substance of it… I have felt it at times there looking back at me threw the lattice of Gods scriptures but always elusive and I fear that my age will overtake me before I know that I know that I have found him… It all seems to culminate on a few simple questions that I wish I could get an answer to…. Maybe you can help…
If God is the substance of and the source of love and goodness (there is none good but the Father) then how could He create this horrible world… The Bible says that the cross was hidden “before the foundation of the world” and that He knows the end from the beginning; so God knew right form the point and maybe a few trillion years before he said “Let’s go make man in our own image” that all these things would happen in the bible and that his Son would have to bare the cross for mans salvation as if it was all part of his plan…. I can’t for the life of me imagine the supreme source of love sitting there looking down times corridor and seeing all the horrible deaths that would occur; seeing himself destroy the earth; seeing himself order the deaths of entire tribes of men…men…woman and children… I wonder how many babies you I could watch having a sword stabbed into there hearts before I would cry out that this is “not good”…. And how could love make a world where there was even a remote possibility that “anyone” would ever spend an eternity in hell… what could be more cruel then that…. I know I am not supposed to ask such questions…or at least I am always told, but the questions will not go away… I would not even send Hitler to hell for all eternity…maybe to live 10 or 12 of the lives that he destroyed on earth so he would get the full impact of his actions…. I know I am not suppose to say such things but I cannot get away from the questions…Do I have more mercy than God is that possible… and if Jesus holds the keys to heaven and hail would he allow anyone to go to hail… I have gone down the road of absolutes and contrast if you know what I mean but it does not satisfy my soul… The bible says that God creates good and evil… I might be able to understand if it was like some of the things that I have read about good and evil both being eternal, at least I could make some sense out of that… but then that would not be the bible and I would have to reject that….
Deborah, Thanks for your encouragement. I can certainly see where these Calvinism points are pulled from in the Scriptures. But to take hold of this doctrine, one needs to be blind or ignorant to a lot of other Scripture. It is as if, someone cut certain passages out and put them together in a book. You can defend the 5 pts if you pick and choose thru the WORD. But alas, ALL SCRIPTURE and the WHOLE COUNCIL of God is what we need to take hold of. We can’t pick and choose thru the word of God and call that the gospel. That is what the devil did to try to trick Jesus in the wilderness and what he has successfully done over time in Babylon.
I encourage you brother to keep going, keep preaching the truth. Don’t listen to the hiss of the serpant. Don’t listen to the nay-sayers, keep on the road that you have tread upon. Pray for us all that we will be counted worthy.
5 Point calvinisam is an evil doctrine. It says that God intentionally creates people for salvation or destruction. Well, if thats true, how do I know that I am chosen for either.
Our God is a ‘whosoever will’ God, and a loving Father and has no pleasure in the death of the wicked.
I simply do not know how people who claim to know Jesus can think this way.
Timothy, I really want to help you see thru the flood. While Calvinism brought some truth to light especially regarding the Sovereignty of God, men have since gathered around this light and built a tower into heaven around it.
I hope you are choosing LIFE and understand what making that choice really means. Our God that changes not, said this to Israel, and I have been grafted into the vine.
Deut 30:15-19 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess. 17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess. 19 This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live
God commands us to love Him. Why command anyone if they have no ability to make a choice? There is no sense even speaking to anyone about God if what you say is true. Why are we even having this conversation? It would of course be a complete waste of time and matter not if it was all predetermined. Since you say there is no choice to make, let’s just sit back and relax and let God save us if that is His will and figured out in advance, and if we are not saved, let’s just live life to the fullest and follow the ways of the world.
The all Sovereign God, also is sovereign over Satan. Satan is God’s creation that works and serves Him and His purposes. God commands the serpent and the serpent obeys. The devil is not operating outside of God’s control. God sends the deceivers to us to test our hearts and see if we love Him and this is determined by God based on the CHOICES we make in life. He is coming with fire to judge ever man and all judgment is based on our deeds, what we did with our free will choice. All that lived in rebellion will be condemned.
If you are living a godly life in Christ Jesus, then praise be to God. I will see you on Mt. Zion. We have to WANT, we have to CHOOSE to live a godly life in Christ Jesus.
2 Tim 3:12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted
I have to run but will circle back and read your comment carefully and provide you a more pointed response. If God has something to show me I trust that it will be given unto me. I pray the same for you.
Tim, This is some very good Scripture and thought provoking question. Let’s see if Timothy will respond. I fully reject this “no free will” doctrine as I see hundreds of verses that would raise the same question you raise in the verse cited above from Mat 23. For example how about this one.
I fully reject the doctrines and traditions of Calvinism and the lie of predestination as taught. Does this mean I insult God and claim He is not all powerful with absolute sovereignty over all? No. God does exactly what He wants to do and not even a bird falls from the sky outside of His will. His will is that NO MAN shall perish yet men are perishing — so there we have an additional thought to noodle on.
I see this concept of free will inherent in every book and virtually every chapter. If we all have something to learn or to confirm, let’s learn it.
Hi Pete,
Been reading and thinking upon these responses and I kind of see where Timothy is coming from to a degree but I keep hearing scriptures popping up in my head about this issue of free will, or the lack thereof.
I wondered if you mightn’t mind if I asked Timothy about a scripture verse and get him to explain how it fits into the Calvanism doctrine. Perhaps this will help me make sense of his line of thinking further.
The one scripture I think of now concerns the words Christ spoke against the scribes, pharisees and teachers of the law.
Mat 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing”
Surely as this is the word of the Lord, which is truth and there is no lie in Him, then it ought to have ended with the words, “but I (God) was not willing”. Why would He give any credit to men for that which was His will.
According to calvanism there is no free will of man (if I understand it) so that statement would seen to be a meaningless and empty confession concerning a non existant will of man. “but you Jerusalem were not willing”
I can’t see how the Lord can possibly stand there and lay His indictment upon their guilt and keep a straight face when He says “but you were not willing” knowing full well that it was His sure will that they utterly reject Him.
We know full well that the Messiah had to be rejected, for this was according to the prophets. We know that there was a hardening of hearts toward Him. We know that God foretold of these events fromthe beginning.
But, and this is where I resist Calvanism, according to my thinking that does not in anyway negate the will of man. It simply infers that God being omniscient knew full well how men would fulfill the rebellion according to the nature of their wicked hearts, and their own will which flowed forth.
Hope that makes sense….Thanks, any light you could shed on this verse may flick a light switch for me but I can’t see it right now.
Thanks,
Tim
I take it then you are very comfortable equating the Word of God with Satan’s speech? By that I don’t simply mean that God and Satan are saying the same thing. Even if they were ( which they are not ) those are two entirely different languages that look alike and sound alike and the only difference is God’s spirit and power as His Word. You are saying that in effect, there in only one large meta language in total reality that has the curious quality about it that it can create nothing and that God, you , Satan, demons and in fact all creatures share that one common language and the only distinction is how one uses that language versus another. Every verse you read and bring out as a proof text is specifically used in a fashion to imply it is a will-neutral, power-less word that the hearer or reader must do something with ..that God is supposedly not His Word but is merely using a common language among all creatures to communicate not His Spirit as Word, but as mere ‘holy info’ that you must then empower somehow yourself.
In the guise of honoring God’s wisdom –which you implicitly say is only what he does with the supposed common speech– you deny His power, which demonstrates an absolute lack of fear of God ..while you accuse those who make a clear distinction between God as Word/Christ and all other speech of ..not fearing God.
In fact, your doctrines are the most popular doctrines on the planet in every religion. Judaism defines all language that same way, as does Islam, as does Hinduism and Zoroastrianism. Even animism does the same. There is nothing about what you have said that is new or true only because you have denied the reality of the Logos and the Word Incarnate while seeming to honor God’s ‘holy directions’ after you have reduced His Word in the eyes of your hearers to will-neutral sayings God desperately hopes you will empower and save yourself. Your sincerity to be a Christian within those doctrines is not in question. It is those doctrines. Balaam made popular a dis-belief in the actual Word of God while continuously seeming to honor Balaam’s version of God’s Word ..just as you are doing. What you are teaching is and has been the most popular church doctrines for over two hundred years and is well known by its fruit: rampant immorality; abortion; wars; murders; lies and deceit as standard business practices and the whole thing supposed validated by the ‘church’ because it preaches a free will theology 24/7 365. Trying to say you are a hero fighting against the crowd is simply absurd.
The verses you cited?
Joshua 24:15 But if you refuse to serve the LORD, then choose today whom you will serve. Would you prefer the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates? Or will it be the gods of the Amorites in whose land you now live? But as for me and my family, we will serve the LORD.”
already answered in the foregoing comment by me.
all the others are cited as supposed evidence of free will and therefore there is no revelation in them and no Spirit of God in them –according to you. They must be will-neutral and powerless or you don’t have free will in their presence. And you know that.
They never mention free will because they are indeed the creating word of God that creates in those who hear them the actions God desires. That is true obedience –God working in you to do His will –not you ‘just being determined’ to ‘do good’ as opposed to ‘doing bad’.
A non-creating/powerless word such as you are preaching raises none from the dead and births none in Jesus Christ –while supposedly praising God. Additionally it can only deceive those who pride themselves on being intellectually nimble and must make intricate distinctions between double-meanings and simple commands in order to ‘know what to do’. Far from being a simple, honest doctrine, you are preaching a very subtle lie. But do you preach that same lie to the retarded or the comatose? Why would you? You know the words themselves are just as powerless as those persons. You only have a greater comfort zone with others like yourself in that they seem to be able to ‘do’ and are jsut as deceived as you that you have free will becuase there is, in your mind, no such thing as God as Word.
How do you explain:
John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
What word was made flesh, Pete? Human speech? Satan’s speech?
Why the antagonism between THAT Word and the language of the pharisees? Note that God as the Word does not say they are ‘good people with bad theology’. He Says they are sons of Satan.
John 8:43-47 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
He that is of God heareth God’s Words: ye therefore hear them not becuase ye are not of God. –that was said to the very people who were saying exactly what you are saying. You may have a sincere desire for less immorality and crime and a more conservative society and such, but what has that to do with a miraculous new birth in Jesus Christ? If God wills it, a pagan society can be socially and fiscally conservative and everyone of them go the lake of fire afterwards because they were not born again.
You have no Word that is divine and creates. Indeed, your lie of free will DEPENDS on the idealized perpetual absence of the Divine Word of God. I’m not sure where you got the impression what you are saying is unpopular. It’s simply the re-hashing of the old deceit of arminianism. The church was corrupted first with the lie of free will. Only after ‘everyone’ supposedly were absolutely sure they had free will –as a religious dictate– did the other evils come as homosexuality and abortion and crime in the guise of new freedoms for the ‘free’ will.
You and I can go through every verse in Scripture, verse by verse starting with Genesis and you can see the difference between God as Creating Word and those of Belial who spoke and worshiped the common sense of free will as a non-creating speech. The story of that fight –between the two speaks– is all through Scripture. Every time you read the word ‘belial’ in Scripture is has to do with non-creating speech. Sons of Belial are those who speak in arrogance toward the Word of God and toward those wait on the Word of God.
When God Said ‘let there be light’ ..and then there was light ..do you actually believe that? That He spoke light into existence?
He said it and then described it it as well:
Psalm 33:8-10 Let all the earth fear Jehovah; let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. For *he* spoke, and it was done ; *he* commanded, and it stood fast. Jehovah frustrateth the counsel of the nations; he maketh the thoughts of the peoples of none effect.
Your doctrine up to now has just been the same whip on the back of helpless creatures that Satan always uses: a lie to make them think its their own idea to do the unforgivable sin as default piety and tell them they will be damned if they don’t for good measure.
I don’t think you really have prayed this through with God. I think you are deceived and scared.
But I will leave you with this, since you seem to have the standard aversion to Calvinism as many of the pop Church:
No one can be a robot. But it is the failure of the lie of free will to make of men righteous robots that is the source of the power of its sorcerers. Men are deceived they ought ideally to be able to do right at all times and think they are guilty if they do not and need a religious system to run to get them back on track to try again as a slave to that lie. That is when the sorcerers get paid. They don’t get paid when God non-metaphorically new creates a human soul as a new creature in Jesus Christ and that soul has God dwelling within and they are fully aware that God non-metaphorically lives in them.
Your standard lie that without the lie of free will mixed with a bit of false Christianity, then ‘people would just do anything’ is in fact a lie. People don’t have free will. And the ONLY way to be obedient to God is to have God dwelling in you and performing His will through you. We who have been born again do not have free will.
Note that it is always the supposed pro-Christ, viral free willers but viral anti-Calvinists who are the criminals and the homosexuals and abortions and supporters of same. Perhaps I’ve been inattentive to the news Pete. Maybe you could point out any Calvinist serial killers or abortionists or pro-homosexuals I seem to have missed. Maybe you could point out even one real Calvinist who was a part of presidential administrations in the past fifty years, and under whose watch, with the Congress, have made immorality common and on a certain level, as legally protected behavior. Instead you will find every last one was a pro-Christ free willer who loathes Calvinism and uses your standard arguments against God as Word. Every last one of them is just like you.
Like God actually Said as Creating Word/Jesus Christ: by their fruits you will surely know them.
By the outlook on God’s Word given to you by someone who hated your soul, and you are trying to give to others, you can’t really know anything because to know something is to be no longer free to investigate whether or not it is true. The only thing you really believe in Pete is free will. You only want God to serve your free will as a more conservative society.
God is not mocked. Saying ‘you have to cut out pages from your bible to be a Calvinist’ is simply more attempts at mockery at God by Satan through you.
You must be born again. You can’t be born again by a will-neutral, powerless word that you must have in order to keep saying ‘I’ve got free will and other people do too’.
I have spoken these things to you in the hope you have heard God in Christ and are a brother someone has deceived. But you are being used to perpetuate evil so far.
Jamess 1:18 According to his own will begat he us BY THE WORD OF TRUTH, that we should be a certain first-fruits of *his* creatures.
1Corinthians 2:12-16 But *we* have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God, that we may know the things which have been freely given to us of God: which also we speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, communicating spiritual things by spiritual means . But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him; and he cannot know them because they are spiritually discerned; but the spiritual discerns all things, and *he* is discerned of no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord, who shall instruct him? But *we* have the mind of Christ.
timothy
In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen
This article was on point! This is truly the truth in scripture – praise God! All we can do is send up a prayer for those who are caught in a delusion – maybe God would remove it.
Be encouraged, brother Pete.
Tim, Thanks for your commentary, I find all of it helpful and as I said, I want truth not to be right with men. Yet I realize this is a battle we fight every day in our flesh. If you see something let me know, I enjoyed your last post BTW.
Hi Pete,
I think Timothy’s post raised a couple of interesting points but to be honest I sensed confusion and can not see a sound biblical foundation for the argument concerning the unforgiveable sin in the context referred to. Sounds very ungracious to me.
The “non creating speach” issue is not something I can find a biblical support for either, well not that I can see, lest it be hidden from these eyes of mine.
I felt that your post was very fair, gracious and balanced. It troubles me that it could be seen otherwise and I’ll re-read Tim’s argument and pray about it.
Blessings,
Tim
Timothy, I let no man be my teacher and that includes John Calvin. I believe I have rightly divided the truth as God Himself has shown me this and this truth is unbroken from Genesis to Revelation. I have looked for the tank hole in the “doctrine” and I have not found it yet. Like Gideon, I have hung my fleece out seeking confirmation scores of times and God has always responded with confirmation or correction. I hope He continues to do that for me and for anybody that is truly seeking to know Him.
I say this out of love not judgment, but your doctrine has no fear of God at its core. My Bible says therefore there will be NO true knowledge of God. In fact Proverbs one calls people that do not fear God FOOLS and speaks to the calamity that will come upon them. If you want to edify me and correct me, I would like you to point specifically the verses I did not properly divide. When Jesus said you can’t practice lawlessness and enter the Kingdom, what else did He mean? We cannot go thru the Bible with sissors and cut out what does not fit into our doctrine or belief system. You would have to cut out 75% of the Scriptures (my estimate) and cherry pick thru the rest to arrive at the what you are telling me is truth. That is how we get another Jesus and another gospel. I would love to see a verse or an explanation of where I did not properly divide the truth. That is what I am seeking.
You cite the error of Baalam. I can promise you that what I am writing about is not popular. It does not tickle flesh or build any reputation or win favors amongst men. That is not my aim or where the Spirit is leading me. A gospel that says you are eternally saved, you don’t need to fear God and you don’t have to do anything, even obey — and which also claims exercising faith is a work pleases flesh. Our flesh likes that gospel but it is not the gospel, it is a lie. I believe the evidence of the error of Baalam is closely tied to what John Calvin taught. I judge not anyone’s heart but I will judge doctrine and if it does not line up with the truth than I will reject it. Calvinism, as I know it flunks the test and I will not shrink back from truth I have already searched for and God has shown me. I belong to Jesus and His church and I did not even invite myself, He chose me to come. That is the only “church” that counts.
I pray for wisdom daily and praise God for opening my eyes to some of His truth. I only want to know more of it and am alert that deceivers are coming from all directions.
I encourage you to live your life here in reverent fear of God, the very one who has the power over death. If you worship the same God Peter the Apostle did, I encourage you to heed his words to the saints.
1 Peter 1:17 Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear
The truth can only be shown to you by God. No man can give it to you and that includes me and John Calvin. God opens eyes and He shuts eyes. He opened mine, why I don’t know as I did not deserve it but I am taking the little bit of light I have been given and proclaiming it.
You are correct that God saves EVERYBODY that gets saved. My little ministry saves nobody whatsoever. I don’t advertise it or promote it and as my ABOUT section says, I do this for my own edification of putting on paper what God has shown me in the WORD. I am spreading the eternal gospel as instructed and what happens subsequently is in God’s hands not mine or John Calvin’s or any man. While I have nothing to boast about, I am seeing fruit borne of God from my walk and this gives me the confirmation I need.
Thank you Karen for your encouragement. Let’s give our praises to God as He alone gives us the strength to stand and overcome the powers of this dark world.
It is written: A woman shall compass a man and create a new thing in the earth (Jer 31:22), the man is Satan(Isa 14:16), the new thing is now delivered to the world. Satan has deceived the whole world (Rev 12:7), until the heel of time(Gen 3:15). Check out the bruising of Satan by his lies being exposed at http://thegoodtale.blogspot.com.
Timothy, A lot to digest here my friend and I will look at it. I am not God, I am just a man and I am learning more about Jesus every day and I am going to look at what you have submitted and the Scriptures you cite. But my heart immediately gave me a reaction when skimming your comment. I see phrases like “non-creating speech” that you cite and I thought of what Paul said to Timothy in 1 Tim 6. If any man brings to you a doctrine that does not conform you to godliness and the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ, he is conceited and understands nothing but has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words.
I am trying to point people back to the simplicity and purity of our devotion to Christ. Love Him with all your heart. Anything else is RELIGION and I don’t care how it is packaged and how long or fancy the words used describe it.
What kind of love is not a choice my friend? Jesus said if you love Him you will obey Him. I encourage you to walk the difficult and narrow path that leads to life. Predestination as widely taught is a lie. We don’t need a Bible or a Holy Spirit if what you say is true. We might as well ignore the words of Jesus, the same Jesus you cite in your comment, when HE told us to go into all the world and make DISCIPLES, teaching them to obey all I have commanded. Why bother if we don’t have a choice to make and it is all predetermined? I genuinely fear for all that believe this.
I will not get angry. I have overcome anger, I have died to it. That is indeed what we must choose, to die to our self and live for God. Heb 2:3 How shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation from God?
It is God’s will that NO MAN perish, but not all men are or will be saved. We might as well all take a chill pill and go live like the world and ignore the enemy that comes to steal the truth, kill our faith and destroy our souls.
Pete,
the number one sin today is denial of God as Word/ Logos, which is exactly what you have done, without any intent or free will. That you have done it in the guise of praising and honoring His Word makes no difference.
You can get angry, or you can pray about what you are reading.
No man can bring something into creation by simply speaking. Only God does that as Jesus Christ/Word of God.
The default speech of human beings after the fall and as part of the definition of being fallen is non-creating speech. No man can create with his speech. Everyone knows this.
But no one can pay attention to what that knowledge or know the importance of knowing it.
Having a non-creating speech seems to grant free will ( and is a standard component of ‘logical’ arguments of supposedly having free will ). Human speech is never presented as non-creating in those arguments, only as a more benign purpose-of-speech argument that goes “the purpose of language is to deliver information that the one receiving the information must process and act on.”
Non-creating speech is the speech of men and of Satan and demons. It has its own common sense based on its lack of creating power. But when that speech in you applies its common sense toward God and equates itself with God’s Word –while quoting God to supposedly prove that equivalent status– and make it seem “God means” what only the common sense of non-creating speech could understand, that is the unforgivable sin and is equating the Word of God with Satan’s speech in the pretense that they have the same speech, but God is just smarter in its use.
Note why Jesus Christ, the Word of God incarnate, says that to sin against the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin: it equates His speech ( the Word –of God as Total Trinity– not just Christ himself ) with demonic speech:
Mark 3:22-30 And the scribes who had come down from Jerusalem said, He has Beelzebub, and, By the prince of the demons he casts out demons. And having called them to him , he said to them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom has become divided against itself, that kingdom cannot subsist. And if a house has become divided against itself, that house cannot subsist. And if Satan rise up against himself, and is divided, he cannot subsist, but has an end. But no one can, having entered into his house, plunder the goods of the strong man unless he first bind the strong man , and then he will plunder his house. Verily I say unto you, that all sins shall be forgiven to the sons of men, and all the injurious speeches with which they may speak injuriously; but whosoever shall speak injuriously against the Holy Spirit, to eternity has no forgiveness; but lies under the guilt of an everlasting sin; –because they said, He has an unclean spirit.
because they said, he had an unclean spirit ..that was doing the speaking –and casting out of other spirits.
Those who lied to you and pretended you had free will lied about the difference between the Word of God and non-creating speech. They didn’t say it overtly, but what they taught you to believe was that God and Satan and demons have the same speech and thus the same common sense of that speech.
In non-creating common sense, sounds and speech don’t create anything. So there must be another reason for being spoken. Enter the ‘purpose of speech’ arguments of free willers of every pagan stripe. Your outlook on speech is identical with Hindus, Muslims, more obvious satanists and all witches.
Someone has taught you the doctrine of Balaam. Balaam used religious guile to give Israel a new best honesty about reality that just happened to deny every God said in the guise of making an entire religion around supposedly worshiping that word. Their default piety, without their knowing it, was predicated to make God angry with them and the more they attempted to say “but we’re doing what you said!” the more they denied God as Word and equated Him with Satanic speech. When God didn’t make sense according to non-creating speech, they said God was unfair and contradictory.
That is exactly what you have done in a supposed effort to diligently and thoroughly explain ‘why people don’t do right’.
Without knowing it, and without free will, you have presented God’s Word as supposed will-neutral ‘holy info’ that has no power excepting what a man can give it if that man is particularly inclined to do so.You then seek to present inducements to so incline him with the standard emotional appeals of non-Christian marketing techniques/game theory applied to supposed Christian concepts.
You quote God Saying “choose this day” and other such –revelations– as if they were proof God gave free will to men. The only way that could be such a proof is if God had spoken in non-creating speech. Rather than asking “what did God create by saying that” you always ask ‘how can I go about choosing correctly what God said in a will-neutral, non-creating way toward me at all times?’ –as your best piety and religious activity.
What God created –and is creating by those words– is a hardened heart in sinners –exactly as he hardened Pharaoh’s heart. His Word to pharaoh was presented in such a way as make it appear ( to pharaoh, who could only hear non-creating speech and not even know that any other speech existed as part of being fallen) that pharaoh ‘had a choice’.
You never saw that deception that has been given to you as false religion coming because it was wrapped in your natural outlook on life and language as a fallen human being. Within that non-creating speech that all men ( excepting new creatures in Jesus Christ ) have, that lie of free will and its definition of language to make free will look logical, it makes perfect sense; the same sense that pharaoh had when he looked at his army, his family linage, the definition of speech of all men everywhere on the planet in his day versus what God Said through Moses.
You hear or you do not. But I have told you the truth n Jesus Christ this day. God has sent and does send His Word for a multitude of purposes.
To harden:
Isaiah 6:8 And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? And I said, Here am I; send me.
And he said, Go; and thou shalt say unto this people, HEARING ye shall HEAR and shall NOT understand, and SEEING ye shall SEE and shall NOT perceive. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and healed. And I said, Lord, how long? And he said, Until the cities be wasted, without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land become an utter desolation, and Jehovah have removed men far away, and the solitude be great in the midst of the land. But a tenth part shall still be therein, and it shall return and be eaten; as the terebinth and as the oak whose trunk remaineth after the felling: the holy seed shall be the trunk thereof.
Look and hear: God Said as a creating act of speech to their ears
that they would not gain the hearing that causes life. So that later, He goes to them again and says:
John 8:43-49 Why do ye not know my speech? Because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of the devil, as your father, and ye desire to do the lusts of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks falsehood, he speaks of what is his own; for he is a liar and its father: and because I speak the truth, ye do not believe me.Which of you convinces me of sin? If I speak truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God hears the words of God: therefore ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. The Jews answered and said to him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan and hast a demon? Jesus answered, I have not a demon; but I honour my Father, and ye dishonour me.
But to those who can hear He says:
John 6:63 It is the Spirit which quickens, the flesh profits nothing: the WORDS which I have spoken unto you ARE SPIRIT AND ARE LIFE.
Are God’s Words the same as Satan’s spirit? Of course not. What then is the difference? You have to say they are they same spirit in order to keep saying you have free will –to make it seem you live in an environment that permits free will. You may even say God’s Word creates, but in order to keep saying you have free will, you have to also say God’s Word never re-created you –that you never ran into a circumstance that proved you had no free will –that your whole reality is idealized as will-neutral and powerless expressly so you can just keep saying ‘I’ve got free will’. You have to say you have never and will never be non-metaphorically born again in Jesus Christ. All that goes hand in hand. In for a penny, in for a pound.
I think it plain the best people you know as religious persons to emulate are not God’s favorite people. Those people may have lots of followers and lots of money, but they are liars and have been given a lie as their default piety.
God creates us anew by His Word –the same Word that created all that is and all that will be:
1Peter 1:23-25 being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, BY the living and abiding word of God. Because all flesh is as grass, and all its glory as the flower of grass. The grass has withered and its flower has fallen; but the word of the Lord abides for eternity. But THIS IS the word which IN the glad tidings is preached to you.
No one gets to choose to be born again. You cannot ‘do right’ without God doing it through you. There is no free will. It is not at all a case of identical creatures in two different locations, some of whom go to heaven and others to the lake of fire –much less as supposedly earning their placement by some action or lack of action. New creatures in Jesus Christ will be in heaven because God as Word and Spirit dwells in us; all others will be in the lake of fire.
If you can’t hear God a little, you can’t hear him a lot. Going around accusing people that they ought ideally to be able to do right living as their default state of being is anti-christ, denies God, equates God as Word/Christ with Satanic speech and is the unforgivable sin. Someone gave you or your family and friends that best honesty and laughed about it because the harder you supposedly do it in ‘free’ will, the angrier God gets at you. Not only so, but any grace God gives you you then take credit for doing as if you had received nothing but were just smarter or more determined than others because they supposedly aren’t ‘using their free will correctly’ while you ‘do’.
1Corinthians 4:7 For who makes thee to differ? and what hast thou which thou hast not received? but if also thou hast received, why boastest thou as not receiving?
I have told you this in Christ. It is not going to be sufficient to say to God “I meant well in what I thought at the time was the truth but what was actually THE lie that destroyed my neighbor’s soul.”
Jude 1:10-13 But these, whatever things they know not, they speak railingly against; but what even, as the irrational animals, they understand by mere nature, in these things they corrupt themselves. Woe to them! because they have gone in the way of Cain, and given themselves up to the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. These are spots in your love-feasts, feasting together with you without fear, pasturing themselves; clouds without water, carried along by the winds; autumnal trees, without fruit, twice dead, rooted up; raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shames; wandering stars, to whom has been reserved the gloom of darkness for eternity.
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Php 2:12,13 So that, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much rather in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you both the willing and the working according to his good pleasure
timothy
In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen
Brother, you speak the truth!